Jacques Sercia / Joséphine Dalcier

[mosgau]

Ok, the passenger list he seems to be on says le Havre-Liverpool-Canada. It's funny you mention the travelling family since I researched on travelling salesmen, seeing all the family was doing it and it looks like there was a big network of "marchands colporteurs" during that time based in Haute-Garonne where they are from. Clearly they where part of this network "Au cours du xixe siècle, plusieurs communautés montagnardes du Haut-Comminges avaient organisé un véritable réseau de colportage."

[ericdubois]

That reminds me that colportage was a regulated occupation so they had to register with either the town or the department. I'm not sure if those archives have been preserved but they are unlikely to be accessible online.

[ranarana]

hello
to see click on the images
looking for a boat that goes to liverpool (in canada it is said that he comes from liverpool)
a greeting

https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/archive/resultats/bateaux/n:207?RECH_Quartier_Libel=Havre%7C&RECH_Quartier_Md5=ab57a103813625f36d5579075188be9f%7C&RECH_titretrois_Libel=R%C3%B4les+de+d%C3%A9sarmement%7C&RECH_titretrois_Md5=8673d1e6d4890591af38de3c396de133%7C&RECH_unitdate_debut=1870&RECH_unitdate_fin=1873&arcfacfull=RECH_S&type=bateaux


rana

[ericdubois]

I don't see any evidence that the Nestorian trip started in the Havre. Although this list is incomplete.
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=nesto

Liverpool was a common stopover for travel from France. But in this case, it looks like Jacques might have taken another ship to reach Liverpool.

Eric

[ericdubois]

[mosgau]

The passenger list I found seem to have departed in July though. Very nice resources by the way!

[ericdubois]

My search yesterday went straight to the page. Today, it wants me to register. You might be able to find a more timely ad.
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?basicsearch=nestorian&exactsearch=false&retrievecountrycounts=false&newspapertitle=croydon%2527s%2bweekly%2bstandard&sortorder=2

The advertised schedule also differs from Norway Heritage's list, which includes a 29 JUL 1873 departure and 12 AUG 1873 arrival.

[ranarana]

I don't see any evidence that the Nestorian trip started in the Havre. Although this list is incomplete.
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=nesto

Liverpool was a common stopover for travel from France. But in this case, it looks like Jacques might have taken another ship to reach Liverpool.

Eric

all right
but we can not exclude the harbor there are departures for liverpool and for its departures not sure to find lists
passengers
un salut
rana

[ericdubois]

Let's summarize what we know.
1. Jacques's naturalization in 1907 indicates that he has lived in Canada for 34 years. This coincides with the passenger list from 1873. It also indicates that he was from St Ambroix.
2. Françoise's death in 1872 shows that she was living in St Ambroix (Faubourg du Pont) with her parents.
It also indicates that she was born in Gaud, so the family must have moved back south before 1855.
Jacques was 11 in 1855 so he must have moved back with the family. He was 28 in 1872 so it's hard to say if he still lived with his parents.
3. Unfortunately, I was not able to find the 1871 census, but I found the family in 1876, still in St Ambroix.
They have another daughter, Germaine, 17 (=> born 1859 in St B? )
http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_6M/SAINT_AMBROIX/FRAD030_227_1876?img=FRAD030_227_1876_6M316_0057.jpg

Update: 1881 - Pierre lives with Germaine, probably widower.
http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_6M/SAINT_AMBROIX/FRAD030_227_1881?img=FRAD030_227_1881_6M316_0047.jpg

Update: 1886 - Pierre lives with Germaine, who has since married Denis BARRY
http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_6M/SAINT_AMBROIX/FRAD030_227_1886?img=FRAD030_227_1886_6M316_0043.jpg

Update: Germaine's marriage. We learn that Jeanne died 7 MAR 1880
http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_ETAT_CIVIL/SAINT_AMBROIX/REGISTRES/FRAD030_227_00067?img=FRAD030_227_05MI380087_0251.jpg

Update: Jeanne's death, 7 MAR 1880, St Ambroix
http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_ETAT_CIVIL/SAINT_AMBROIX/REGISTRES/FRAD030_227_00083?img=FRAD030_227_05MI380269_0391.jpg

Update: Germaine's birth, 31 MAR 1860, Mas du Mouse-Nègre, St Brès, Gard
http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_ETAT_CIVIL/SAINT_BRES/REGISTRES/FRAD030_237_00027?img=FRAD030_237_5E47310000_0047.jpg

Chronologically, we have
1844-1846: Metz, Moselle
1848: Fos, Haute-Garonne
1851: Metz, Moselle
1855: Gaud, Haute-Garonne
1860: St Brès, Gard
1872-1886: St Ambroix, Gard

[mosgau]

Yes, also that before 1844 the parents come from Fos and Argut-Dessus in H-G but they married in Metz while she was 7 months pregnant. I also found a few generations living and staying as laborers (Brassiers) on Pierre Cerciat mother side. -edit: Wow Sercia(s)(t) now? hahaha.

[ericdubois]

At this point, I'm trying to identify where Jacques might have lived when he married. The 1871 census would have been really helpful.

I'm updating my previous post to keep the chronology in one place.

[ericdubois]

Jacques most likely was married some time between 1864 and 1873. The family was living in the Gard department during that time period. But, as mentioned earlier, the wedding is typically held where the bride lives.

DALCIER is a very rare name in the period. DACIER and DASSIER are more probable surnames, or maybe even DACHIER/DACHER/DACHET. But I can't find a Joséphine that's remotely the right age.

Eric

[mosgau]

Maybe a T instead of a D in your names searches, I find that T and D could sound similar depending on the accent. I'm literally going through a list of all the Josephine who died in St-Ambroix just in case, nothing so far
edit: It looks like Dalcier but I also wondered if it was Dulcier at one point, the way it's written.

[mosgau]

I just found something interesting, in 1848 they would have been in Fos since another son seem to be born there and later married in St-Ambroix in 1878. If you wanna updated your timeline post with Bertrand.

edit: Also it seems like Pierre was called Pierre dit Moune/Mouse (like the deceased husband of his mother) and now Pierre dit Bilac.

http://gard.viewer.anaphore.org/series/FRAD030_ETAT_CIVIL/SAINT_AMBROIX/REGISTRES/FRAD030_227_00066?img=FRAD030_227_05MI380269_0120.jpg

[ericdubois]

I realized I never checked the other 2 births in Metz:
Jeanne Pétronille, 15 JUL 1846
https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/WEB_RegistreVisuImgAppelExterne/311709_1Exzxb525/ILUMP9999

Pierre, 14 JUN 1851
https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/WEB_RegistreVisuImgAppelExterne/317409_1Exzxb587/ILUMP9999
https://archives.metz.fr/4DCGI/WEB_RegistreVisuImgAppelExterne/317410_1Exzxb587/ILUMP9999

So it looks like they made a roundtrip.

Eric